Pebbles&TamTam never know when to stop the bit. The duo spitballs ideas, both fearlessly and expertly, to write sugar rush pop that’s as random and addictive as any TikTok FYP. Their latest release, Sleepover! the mixtape :P, is the product of this back-and-forth dynamic, capturing the giddy nostalgia of an overnight adventure, no parents allowed.
I drove to Westlake Village in California to meet the girls at a writing camp, located right above a dog training center. We instantly launched into a million fake marketing ideas — some of which we decided were secretly genius (rebranding everything to be overtly “woke and gay,” like Quaker Feeling My Oats and introducing Sun-Maids as two lesbian lovers).
Their minds combined move a million miles a minute, just like their music.
At what point did you two cross paths?
Pebbles: Believe it or not, we actually only met a year and two months ago.
Wait, wow.
Pebbles: We met at Berkelee College of Music in Boston. We had a mutual professor that was always trying to get us to link up, and we ended up both going to the same songwriting camp. We got put into a group together there. Off the bat, I could tell that it was a really great collaboration team up for whatever reason. We just understood [each other] and had a really compatible workflow, without having to strive for it. So we ended up thinking we could do stuff for pitch. We had our own artist projects where we would both produce and record ourselves for songs. It was never really the intention for us to be a duo. It was always like, Oh, we’re good at writing together, let’s make some stuff and maybe someone else will use it. Then we’ll somehow make money when we get out of here.
Important. [Laughs]
Pebbles: Because of that, it turned into this thing where what we were making accidentally had a life of its own. It’s almost like the curse was a blessing because we couldn’t write for pitch. We couldn’t make a song that sounded like another artist, which then was the blessing because we showed it to [our collaborator] Boston and he was like, You can’t pitch this to anyone because it’s you. And we were like, Oh my bad. He’s like, No, you need to do this. Why would you try and write for other people? This whole time we had both been trying to find this sound and then it worked once we did it together accidentally. He was like, You somehow did artist development accidentally.
How do you approach music-making separately, and what’re the elements of you both that come together to make this crazy, new thing?
TamTam: I was super into my lo-fi R&B bag before we met. I was really inspired by rap, and artists who rap and sing at the same time. I was really attracted to that. I wouldn’t necessarily say that I practiced it, but the more I wrote, the more I gradually wrote in that diary-with-melody style and was like, This is cute. I didn’t really think I was rapping. Sometimes I would just straight out rap, but I didn’t think that was what I was doing.
Pebbles: When we first met, she didn’t consider herself a rapper even though she was recording rap verses that were amazing. And I was like, What the fuck is that then? Sorry, but you’re a rapper. [Laughs]
TamTam: I wasn’t confident wearing the badge because, you know how our favorite rappers today were coming up writing 16 bars a day? I didn’t practice my pen that way.
Pebbles: But you did, that just wasn’t the intention. You were doing it as a byproduct, almost.
TamTam: For sure, it wasn’t intentional at all.
Pebbles: It was natural.
TamTam: Both of us were pretty much completely electronic-based in regards to production.
Pebbles: I don’t play any instruments, I suck at instruments.
TamTam: It’ll be more for chords for writing, but most of the time I’m writing straight into my DAW, and it still just is us and her laptop. That’s our whole setup: two barefoot monitors, TLM103 and Ableton. That’s literally our whole thing. So that was pretty easy, both of our styles and wanting to incorporate really random weird sounds. We both liked a lot of similar artists too. We put each other on to some random people and it just matched.
Who are some of those people?
Pebbles: I was listening to Doechii, but I hadn’t heard “Alter Ego” with JT. When I heard that I was like, Oh my god. That song really did something to me. It awakened something and I just love the delivery. That’s something I really let loose on when we started working together: opening up the possibilities of vocal delivery, because we’re at Berkelee and I’m going to my voice lessons and I’m trying to sing correctly and do breathing exercises. If that’s the goal, then that’s amazing. But for me, sometimes I’d almost get lost in that sauce and forget that, for the type of music we’re making, which is very much electronic in the box — in the box as in, in the computer, not as in we’re not trying to think out of the box. [Laughs] I only think in the box. [Laughs] No, but when we started working together I threw all that out of the window and was like, I don’t need to sound like a good singer to get the best vocal performance, because sometimes it’s not the vibe.
TamTam: You’re gonna shit on the vocals, anyway, in the processing. So it’s like, we’re not Adele, bruh.
Pebbles: That was the whole thing, the vocals and production are super blended together. There’s not a beat and then you on top of the beat.
It’s like a whole tornado together.
Pebbles: Exactly, and I never considered myself to be the best singer. I can sing, like I got into Berkelee, but I’m at Berkelee listening to these other singers–
TamTam: [Sings loudly]
Pebbles: I’m like, I don’t stand a chance. I’m not going to try and do something that I know I can never do. I’m never going to be the best at that, they’re always going to beat me at that. So let me figure out something else that I can be good at that someone else can’t do.
With formal training, there’s almost a dead end. At some point you have to do some introspection, like what do I want out of this?
TamTam: You can’t teach taste, that’s what I always say. Very foundational shit, for sure, I’m not gonna say I never learned anything at Berkelee.
Pebbles: It also depends on the goal. If you are a singer, singer, you should be singing.
TamTam: Again, if we had never met, I’d probably still just be doing my thing. But even that, those styles are not things that we got from songwriting lessons or classes. That was just our taste and we learned how we can incorporate what we fuck with personally into the craft.
Pebbles: It’s like a giant amalgamation of everything we’ve ever learned is piecing together subconsciously in your brain to then make something that you don’t know where it came from, but it's actually a combination of everything you’ve ever heard and all the advice you’ve ever heard. That’s the beauty of internalizing teaching instead of having it be something you have to consciously think about. It’s then within you and you’re no longer thinking, Let me think about this skill that I learned. It’s like, I understand this at a core level. That is really what the songwriting major is at Berkelee, or what I tried to make it, because songwriting is such an abstract thing that people are like, How do you do that as a major? How do you spend four years learning how to write a song? There’s so many little details that you can take or not take.
Your mixtape is exciting because there was a time when music would often be described as, This meets that, in terms of genre or influence. But now, because of the internet, we’ve arrived at everything thrown together at once. It’s not just one thing, or two combined. Your music is a real journey with so many little surprises and bits. Is that quality intentional or did it happen naturally?
Pebbles: The goal for me was to make something that doesn’t sound like anything else, or is genreless. That was always a dream of mine, but obviously that’s a very weird task to take on because how do you do something that is trying to be nothing and everything at the same time? What it comes down to is just having a very wide taste of music and liking a lot of things. I think some people think when you’re making a song it’s like, Oh we’re making this type of song, so I need to make these sounds, I need to use this type of snare, I need to use this drum pattern or this processing on the vocal. But that’s only a thing because it’s been done before and it worked for that.
Somebody had to figure that out first, yeah.
Pebbles: There was a first time someone did it. Which, probably the person before them was like, You can't do that. [Laughs] That’s literally how all music was created.
TamTam: Imagine the guy who first made PB&J. Everyone was like, What the fuck are you on? Stop.
Pebbles: Yeah, That doesn't exist. That’s not a thing.
TamTam: Peanut butter is peanut butter, jelly is jelly. Bread is bread. Why are you putting them on a fucking sandwich? And you’re just like, Open up. That’s how I think about it.
Was there a song you made that was like, This is the vibe, and you realized you were onto something?
Pebbles: That happens a lot, but it’s always something different. What we’ll do is we’ll make something and be like, This is the vibe for right now, let’s make four more like this. And then we’ll find something else.
TamTam: Even right now, we’re kind of just doing everything.
Pebbles: Dude, the refs for this [writing] camp, it’s hilarious. What is it? Alanis Morissette–
TamTam: “Just a Dream,” Nelly. Like, Kid Ink.
Is that the typical process when you’re making music? You give yourself prompts to build around?
Pebbles: It’s things where there’s something about it that we really enjoy. And then, not that we’re trying to make that song again, but we pinpoint what it is that we really like about it and then see if we can carry that over into something completely different.
So with Alanis Morissette, you’re thinking about elements of her music?
Pebbles: It’s the chords, the melody structure of it and then the sounds used for the instrumentation.
Even having spent a little time with you here, I’ve noticed you two have a really magical back and forth, and you’re also hilarious. How does it work between you two, lyrically? Is humor always a part of that experience?
Pebbles: I feel like a lot of our songs, especially on the new project, Sleepover, are kind of just jokes. They start out with us riffing and then we’re like, Wait, what if we did not stop the bit.
TamTam: We're like, Okay, we have a concept, and then we divide and conquer. Like, I'll have a couple verses, maybe a bridge, she'll have a hook. Then when we come together, we have the song and just lay everything down. Most of it will be like, Okay, I have a part. I don't know what it is, but let's just lay it down and arrange it later. We'll have these hooks and random parts written, and then we'll arrange the song after the fact. It's not really set, like pre-chorus here, bridge here.
Pebbles: If you listen to “Pink Like Suki” or “FromTheBack,” what the hook is, is very up for debate.
You definitely don’t follow standard structures of conventional pop songs. Sometimes you don’t even know where you are in the song.
Pebbles: I always find it interesting when I look on Genius or something, and see what they think is the hook, or what the consensus is. And a lot of the time, it's not what we expect. I'm like, Oh, I guess it does sound like that.
Do you have an intention in your mind of what the hook would be for each or you kind of don't even care about those formats?
Pebbles: It depends on the song. There's always a part where we're like, This is definitely a hook, but it just might be three parts that are the hook, and then it's like, Is it the hook and then two posts? Or is it an A-B section, hook and then a post? Or is that a pre and then a hook and then a post? It's that kind of detail, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day because when you're hearing a song, you're not thinking that, right?
Yeah, whatever feels good. I also think we’re more advanced when it comes to music consumption and can absorb information much faster than we did, like 10 years ago.
Pebbles: Like, we were a little more structured?
Yeah, because the internet has programmed our brains to process things so quickly. It's like scrolling through TikTok — mukbang, makeup GRWM, crime scene — so we’re primed for that kind of information.
Pebbles: We can change topics very quickly and not be confused. I feel like that is a totally new skill that newer generations, especially if you meet little kids–
I don't meet many, but I'm terrified.
Pebbles: Their brains are moving 10,000 miles a minute, it's kind of insane. The world around them is super fast and they have to keep up.
Is there a song on Sleepover that feels defining for you both as artists?
Pebbles: It's really tough because we like to do so many different things. And the moment that we're like, This is our sound, then we're like, No, it's not anymore. What would your answer be? I mean, I already know.
TamTam: You do? What is it?
Pebbles: “PBxTMTM!” and “FromTheBack.”
TamTam: Yeah, those are my favorites.
Pebbles: For me, I'm most drawn to “horse girls<3” and “sneak out…” Those ones I love.
Are you horse girls?
Pebbles: I was totally a horse girl, horse woman now.
So it’s a true story.
Pebbles: “All horse girls gotta grow up some day.” We were dying when we were writing that, it was so funny. I think it was actually Pink Slip’s idea and he was like, Should we just write a song about horse girls?
TamTam: This goes back to the structure thing, because the first part we wrote in the song was actually the post: “And I really wanna giddy up,” that was the first part of the song.
Pebbles: And I was like, What if we put a horse neigh after that? Then it turned into a whole song. That was fun to make, I just really love how silly that one is. It's also a banger.
Lots of bangers on Sleepover, the first track especially: “PBxTMTM!”
Pebbles: It's our theme.
Did you want to make a theme song?
TamTam: Well, I had the hook — ”PBxTMTM” — I wrote that when I was home alone. Before we had officially moved to LA together, I was still in Maryland and just wrote that to a random beat. I was like, This is hilarious, it's so stupid, but I'm gonna keep it. And I was kind of nervous to show it to her because I'm like, This is really stupid — no like, really stupid.
Pebbles: We've gone way stupider, so–
TamTam: It was originally called “Bank Account.”
So you both just moved to LA?
TamTam: In July.
Pretty fresh. Because you're from–
TamTam: I’m from Maryland.
Pebbles: I'm from Ojai, like by Ventura.
Are you loving it? Now you’re focused on music all the time here?
Pebbles: We're definitely locked into that. I feel like we could thrive anywhere, but this is the best place for us to be right now and it makes the most sense.
It’s the pop music capital. I guess, do you think about your music at all in a pop radio context?
Pebbles: My goal is always for us to be making pop music, but pop is so many different things. Pop, not even in the sense of the genre pop, but just popular music, which can be any genre. So we're free to do whatever, as long as it's really hooky and appealing to a lot of people, somehow.
How did you decide on the Donna Lewis sample in your new single, “Kissing It”?
TamTam: We made that song at Electric Lady.
Pebbles: I think they were just making the beat and I started singing the melody like, What is this song? I love you always forever... I couldn't remember. And then I was like, It's the Donna Lewis song. What if we incorporate that somehow?
It’s one of the best melodies of all time.
Pebbles: Dude, so good.
TamTam: When we were done making that song, our A&R, at the bar she was at, the song started playing, and then again on the radio. I was like, This is fate. We're exactly where we need to be at this moment. The chakras are in line, period.
Do you want to do more sampling in that way?
TamTam: Yes. I want to do more straight up sampling, like not even just taking the melody. With “Pink Like Suki,” we literally ripped the bells and I want to do more shit like that. I listen to shit like “Kitchen” by SZA, or basically when people are taking a certain part of that new song, and looping it and writing a completely new song. I love shit like that, and think it would be really cool for us to do that and flip it and make it really weird.
Pebbles: Yeah, we do that all the time.
It’s also deep and hidden within some of the songs, because there are so many elements and layers that you might not even notice they're in there.
Pebbles: Yeah, true. Sometimes we're not ripping, but we're heavily referencing. We’ll change the melody, but then use a similar sound or have it be a nod instead of the same melody. So I think we do it both ways.
When you listen to Sleepover, what do you think the mixtape says about the moment you created it together? Because now you’re already here working on new music.
TamTam: I hope people see the fun in us. Obviously, we’re serious, but we really have fun making this shit. You don’t have to rewrite the book of Genesis for a song to be good.
It definitely sounds like you’re having fun.
TamTam: It’s like an invitation to the party.
Pebbles: If it says something about who we are as artists, to me it says that we can take a lot of different things that are seemingly unrelated and then be the thing that links them all together. To me, the project sounds very cohesive but then when you really listen to it, it’s a huge collage of so many different sounds and styles and genres. The link to all the chaos is us. You can do any sound, but then the identity is you.
It’s crazy that you both met so recently and have only just begun working on music in this way. What does success look like for you as Pebbles&TamTam?
Pebbles: I’m always a shoot for the freaking moon type of gal. My goal is to make something as big as possible, so that’s always the intention — to never sacrifice our own taste or dream and vision, and still be able to shoot for the moon. Unfortunately, a lot of artists somewhere along the way bend or shift what the initial vision was in order for things to work out. But the goal for me is to always stay true to that sense of self, and I think that’s a big advantage for us because that’s why it worked in the beginning. We weren’t thinking about what other people would like, we were just making what we thought was cool and people naturally liked it. The intention was just a good song, simply. As long as we don’t lose sight of that, which it’d be pretty hard for us to, then we can’t go wrong.
TamTam: I’m totally with staying true to ourselves and keeping the machine going, and being able to grow our sound, our discography, so that when [success] does happen people have something to deep dive into and appreciate. That’s how you build a fanbase, to me. I don’t think I’ve ever thought about [success].
Pebbles: Which is the difference between us.
TamTam: Yeah, I’m just kind of like, This my shit, this is cool.
Pebbles: I’m scheming and plotting.
That’s a good balance, though. The schemers need someone who’s just vibing, because not everything is a calculation. It must be why this works.
Pebbles: I’m like, What do you mean you’re not worried?
TamTam: I’m just like, Write it down. Let’s do a vision board. Speak it into existence. I guess my only thing is don’t stop, that’s really it. Don’t break the cycle, whatever this is. We don’t know, the cycle doesn’t even know what it wants to be yet. Hit it, but don’t quit it. Keep hitting it. [Laughs] Follow your dreams, we are the world–
Pebbles: Versus me, I’m like, My dreams are my bitch. I’m gonna make them my bitch. [Laughs]
TamTam: You’re like, I’m gonna beat today’s ass.
Pebbles: I’m going to abuse my dreams and demolish them. No one else is gonna do it.
Both approaches are equally inspiring. [Laughs]
Interview & Photos: Justin Moran
Art Direction & Design: Zach Pacheco